More Joop - This seems like a bad decision

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/24/2018 at 13:50 • Filed to: joop

So the new JL gets a turbo mild hybrid 2.0. It gets very good economy for a wangler, 23/25/24 city/hwy/comb. What’s not great is that:

1. its premium fuel only

2. its a $1000 premium up front

3. auto only

the 3rd is just missing out on a perk, but the first 2? So how long would that fuel savings take to pay back the engine? So here’s the thing...it wont, ever. Mainly because premium is more expensive to the point that this engine, according to the EPA which is known to be wildly optimistic to downsize turbo engines to start, says it will cost the exact same as the 3.6. $2150/yr.

In fact in some trims it’s actually MORE money annually. In the unlimited its estimated to cost $2350 a year where the V6 unlimited still sits at $2150. Which is another clue that this turbo engine will likely underperform on its numbers if the size difference matters that much to it compared to the V6 with the same transmission.

Sure it has 25 lbs-ft more torque lower down, but 15 less hp.

“you can tune the engine easier!”

Maybe, maybe not. Remember its an integrated hybrid so maps might not be easy to do and its just going to add to the price gap and decrease economy further.

To me I just don’t see the value. I guess its a little gruntier off the line, but not much. hardly worth $1000 plus $200 a year fuel surcharge. This feels like an engine that was made for the test cycle and that’s all.

The other important question to ask is - which would you rather have off road? A brand new high strung hybrid motor made by FCA? Or a proven V6 that has been very reliable?

DISCUSSION (25)

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 13:59

Once upon a time someone told me that there were enough people who cared enough about the environment that cost didn’t figure into it. But I have to admit, this is way too close a gap to make a good business case. Maybe as a full PHEV hybrid with 20 miles of electric range. You could even manually override the powertrain and save it for rock crawling or whatever.

LOREM IPSUM > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:00

Best option seems to be missing:

Kinja'd!!!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:00

Maybe taxi service is where that drivetrain will really shine. Pfft.... BWAHAHA

Future next gen S2000 owner > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:01

20 bucks says you ask a Jeep person and they would prefer it with a 4.0L.

HammerheadFistpunch > Ash78, voting early and often
05/24/2018 at 14:03

I get that completely...which is why some many people have long term solar panel leases on their roofs...but it doesn’t make any sense to me, which is why I don’t. Aside from the torque curve the notion of using less of a more expensive fuel is about the only reason I could see logical people choosing this option.

the reality is that the people who will choose this motor will be people who only see the epa numbers and assume that its better without doing the math.

HammerheadFistpunch > Future next gen S2000 owner
05/24/2018 at 14:05

I used to be one, but the thing is, the pentastar 3.6 is lighter, more powerful and more usable while still being reliable. its a great engine for the wrangler.

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:12

In my area, some station charge almost a full dollar more for premium fuel. I believe the EPA considers it about 50 cents or so. That’s huge.

The gap wasn’t always this bad (it was 40 cents for a long time) but then a zoning law forced gas stations to only show one price on their signs. I guess they figure they have a captive audience...and have never heard of Gasbuddy or Google Maps. Still not much has changed.

Future Heap Owner > Ash78, voting early and often
05/24/2018 at 14:14

People who care about the environment enough to pay a cost premium don’t seem like they’d be the type of people who’d buy a Wrangler as a DD

Ash78, voting early and often > Future Heap Owner
05/24/2018 at 14:17

Yeah, that Venn Diagram of “ex-frat bros with a signed copy of ‘Silent Spring’” is very, very small.

Milky > LOREM IPSUM
05/24/2018 at 14:17

Or even just a 5.7 Hemi. 370 hp in a wrangler would be nice.

Censored > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:22

Missing the impossibly difficult trail repair bullet point.

Saracen > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:27

Savings at the pump isn’t always the most important thing. Increased range on a tank of fuel is a huge and underrated perk IMO.

Also, my imaginary JL would be an Ecodiesel.

Nothing > Future next gen S2000 owner
05/24/2018 at 14:42

Now, that’s the call of a Tacoma person.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:50

the turbo I4 likely has a lower torque peak plus the electric motor has torque from zero RPM. I could see it actually being the better of the 2 options for offroad work.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:53

Give me a 4.0L or give me death

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 14:53

“Sure it has 25 lbs-ft more torque lower down”

All that matters for a Jeep being used right.

HammerheadFistpunch > Saracen
05/24/2018 at 15:11

Just an FYI the highway range difference is 20 miles. Theoretical city range difference is huge though.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Party-vi
05/24/2018 at 15:38

You’ll get a 258 and you’ll like it.

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 15:53

Some of the Sunoco stations near me sell both 91 and 93 octane, with the 91 being a good $0.15 cheaper. Since most cars tuned to run on premium are fine on 91, that’s a nice savings.

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 18:22

It seems better if you do mainly city driving, and wanted the auto anyways.

From a performance standpoint, have there been acceleration figures released yet? If it’s actually faster, but net costs the same, then there is your value proposition.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > HammerheadFistpunch
05/24/2018 at 20:56

I’ve honestly never been more impressed by an engine combo as I have the 3.6/8 speed. It just works so well, even in a heavy Ram. It gets great economy, it’s plenty quick, and it feels surprisingly torquey down low.

SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja > Saracen
05/25/2018 at 11:29

The V6 diesel from the Grand Cherokee/RAM would be amazing in a Wrangler.

Saracen > SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja
05/25/2018 at 13:26

Yup, and it will be available soon in the JL!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch
05/25/2018 at 13:37

Maintenance: ew .

Party-vi > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
05/25/2018 at 13:52

Good. I’ll use the rods and crank and stroke the 4.0L!